I'd go as far as saying we are part of God. I wouldn't like to assume whether beings other than humans have an idea of the existence of God or not, they could be living in full awareness of God for all we know whilst we think it's an idea we've come up with.

Regards, Elaine.

It’s perfectly possible that there are other beings elsewhere in the universe as smart as humans, but there is currently no evidence for their existence at all.

… Many things once denied of existence or not known to exist, are found to exist once perceived.

But there is evidence that some earth animals have the ability to think abstractly to some degree, and these include chimps, gorillas, orang-utans, pigs, elephants, dolphins and a few others. Dogs are generally thought to have insufficiently large and insufficiently complex brains for it. The ability to solve simple problems is not the same as abstraction.

…I beg to differ here. I would say manipulation of numbers is abstract thought.

But the leap from limited ability to think abstractly to the supposition that animals ponder the nature of existence and how they came to be seems unjustifiable to me

… I wasn’t suggesting animals ponder the nature of existence or are aware of God, just that I’ve experienced enough to know there’s a lot more goes on that we’re not aware of than I could have imagined. I was also saying God may have always been, and may be perceived by much that we have not yet perceived, in ways we may not yet be aware of, but because humans create frameworks within which to fit God, it could appear to be a human invention, like leaves capturing water, and man thinking he’d invented the cup.

“out-of-body experiences” could just be particularly vivid dreams.

… There’s quite a bit of evidence regarding OBE’s and NDE’s. I have had one clear experience of it and have known a few who have also experienced it. Some practice astral projection, most I've come across seem to have experienced it spontaneously. There are books to learn how to do it. Test it!

If you choose to believe that animals can do this, that’s up to you. But as for the existence of god, there is no supporting evidence, merely faith.

… For an individual an experience of God would probably be proof enough, faith would probably result, and evidence would likely be seen in existence. It could also possibly be visible for others by way of the individual. If, after witnessing an effect, scientists believe in the existence of something previously undetected, they will go to great lengths to prove its existence. If they don't believe in something, they're unlikely to be looking for it.

I really like discussing things like this because I believe others’ views help develop one’s own perception of what is by re-examination, so thanks for engaging with me.

Cheers, Elaine.

A complete absence of evidence doesn't disprove life elsewhere, in fact it is virtually certain statistically that there is life elsewhere. Our chance of meting it though, is very close to zero.

… yet the complete absence of evidence appears to be enough to disprove God, when in fact those who’ve experienced it see evidence everywhere, and may well believe the chance of meeting God is 100%.

I've seen elephants doing paintings, and I've seen horses apparently adding up numbers. But, I have never seen it demonstrated that they could do this without an awful lot of very specific teaching and it is unclear if they can do it without clues from their masters. Dogs and horses are both brilliant at observing human body language, for example.

… I never thought of that. Thanks. Without knowing the full experiment, I don’t know if the same answer via different routes was tested to see if the human was indicating the answer. I’ll have to keep my mind open on that one, cheers

There is a great deal of evidence now that psychotic mental episodes lead to belief in god. There is no way of telling whether a personal experience of this sort actually was "god" or merely a temporary brain problem.

…I take it this isn’t suggesting all psychotic mental episodes lead to belief in God, but is it positing all who’ve experienced God have had temporary brain problems? If so, these brain problems can be practiced, and as the state for the practitioner is as real as any others’ state, the activity in the brain as real as any activity in the brain, by what measure is it a problem, it could be just another aspect of the workings of the brain. Left-handedness used to be considered a problem.

If you have some hard evidence for astral projection, I'd love to see it.

Joking aside!! I can’t be bothered to raise the discipline to practice astral projection nor develop astral vision, but there is documented evidence of tests, one I recall where the subject successfully read something placed out of sight. The CIA and KGB have been recorded as having used the method too. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence but experience may be the best proof, so try it yourself, seriously, what have you to lose?

It’s been fun, cheers, Elaine.